7+ Taskbar Tweaker
7+ Taskbar Tweaker allows you to configure various aspects of the Windows taskbar.
Most of the configuration options it provides can’t be tweaked using the taskbar properties or the registry.
The tweaker is designed for Windows 7, Windows 8, and Windows 10.
Download
7tt_setup.exe (1.78 MB, changelog)
Latest version: v5.15.2
Note: The installer can be used to extract a portable version. Refer to the FAQ below for details.
Beta version
7tt_setup_beta.exe (1.78 MB, changelog)
Latest beta version: v5.15.2.2
More info about beta versions.
✖
Windows 11 Support Status
- 7+ Taskbar Tweaker doesn’t support the Windows 11 taskbar, and probably never will. See this blog post for more details.
- Some of the tweaks are available in Windows 11 as Windhawk mods. See here for the list of mods, and vote for missing mods that you’d like to see implemented. Read more about Windhawk here.
- 7+ Taskbar Tweaker works on Windows 11 version 23H2 and older with the old taskbar which can be restored with third party tools. See this blog post for more details.
Demo video
Here is a video that demonstrates some of the tweaks:
Source code
https://github.com/m417z/7-Taskbar-Tweaker
FAQ
Q: Which registry keys does 7+ Taskbar Tweaker modify? I don't need extra processes in my system.
A: The only registry keys the tweaker modifies are its own settings. There are no registry keys for the options it provides. The tweaker does that by injecting a DLL to explorer, hooking/subclassing/some other methods of the dark side.
As for extra processes, the tweaker is a native program, and is very lightweight. It shouldn’t slow down your system, and uses an extremely small amount of memory. Also, you can hide the tray icon if you want.
In case you want to remove the tweaker's settings from the registry, look for them here:
HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\7 Taskbar Tweaker
HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Run (7 Taskbar Tweaker value)
P.S. if you're a programmer, you might want to take a look at the 7+ Taskbar Tweaking Library.
Q: My antivirus complains about 7+ Taskbar Tweaker.
A: It's a false positive. I guarantee that the tweaker binaries (and any other files on this site, unless specifically noted) are 100% clean.
Also remember that the tweaker injects into explorer and modifies its memory, which is indeed suspicious.
Q: Can I Group/Combine/Label only some of the items on the taskbar?
A: Yes, use Taskbar Inspector.
Q: May I use 7+ Taskbar Tweaker in a commercial environment?
A: Yes, feel free to use it wherever you want.
Q: Where is the portable version?
A: When installing the tweaker, choose the Portable type of install, as shown on the image below.
The portable version will be extracted to the selected folder.
Note: If the tweaker is already installed on your computer, the option won't be visible. You can launch the setup with the /portable command line switch to force a portable installation.
Q: I want to report a bug/suggest a feature! What is the best way to do it?
A: Post it on the UserEcho page.
Q: I want to translate 7+ Taskbar Tweaker to my language.
A: The archive below contains the files needed to be translated.
Please read readme.txt before proceeding.
7tt_translate.zip (758.63 kB)
If you are brave enough to translate the help file, contact me for the required software and files.
Tags: 7+ taskbar tweaker
Hi,
is there a reason the “Issues” tab is disabled on the GitHub page? https://github.com/m417z/7-Taskbar-Tweaker
IMO it would make much more sense for users to be able to report issues there in a sorted and searchable way instead of having to potentially search through this giant monolithic comments section of 50 pages by hand to see if their issue is already known. If a GitHub repo exists then that Issues tab really is the place to use for that.
I’d go as far as recommending to move all comments from here to issues via a script and a “bot” account who posts the replies from here as quotes, then close the comments here and put a link here saying to post issues (or other comments) over there on GitHub instead.
The same goes for the download of the exe itself, use GitHub Releases for that, which is at least somewhat more trustworthy than some ramshackle homepage of a random guy on the internet (sorry for the harsh words but it’s true from a security standpoint) because things like the date of creation for Releases is verifiable, whereas on a private homepage the exe could be silently replaced at any point in time without anyone noticing, be it by you going rogue or an attacker who managed to get access to this homepage.
And further this also goes for the automatic update process. On the GitHub page it says “Some other boring functionality, such as the update checking mechanism, was omitted as well.” Sorry, but I disagree; That is not “boring” but vital to be verifiable. If the update downloads files from an undisclosed server there could be whatever code in there. Maybe instead let the update code check against a “versions.json” file in the GitHub repo which then contains a list of releases including version number, release date, hash code of the binaries, url to the Releases download link on GitHub page. If required, set it up as the main repo for the main program and a side-repo for a patcher which replaces the required files in the installation directory if the main program cannot do that itself while it’s running or something.
And finally, for the code on GitHub to be verifiable by others, it should be as readable as possible, meaning spelled out names everywhere instead of undecipherable abbreviations (which I see a lot of other programmers do despite a couple of extra letters not costing any money or performance), shorter files where possible instead of giant multi-thousand lines-of-code classes, short and snappy methods which do one thing alone, as well as useful xml comments which explain why something is being done (instead of just repeating what is being done) and a documentation which gets automatically generated from those comments via Doxygen and a GitHub Continuous Integretion script, with the settings set to generate full uml graphs, caller graphs, and call graphs to make it as easy as possible to understand what exactly is happening.
While the comments section alone shows that you have many users who have been using this tool for years, you are nowhere near the size of corporations such as Microsoft et al who are liable by their business taking a hit if they decided to do something shady.
Stay safe and help others stay safe as well!
P.S. The fact that the homepage went down with a complete connection timeout followed by 3 error codes (“database error”, “404”, “1020”) when trying to refresh the page with a couple of hours in between each time just as I wanted to post this comment earlier isn’t exactly confidence-inspiring either…
Hi Bernd,
Thank you for taking the time and writing the feedback, I appreciate it.
The reason is that I use UserEcho for tracking issues and feature requests. The comments here are more for casual discussion and questions than for specific bug reports and new ideas.
I’d lose a bit of flexibility in doing things like managing the download count and the simpler version update flow, but it should be possible, I’ll consider doing that in the future. Also, I try to comment on each release on VirusTotal (v5.10.1 as an example) on the setup file I just built, you might want to use that as an extra check.
This is a good idea, but that’s something that takes time to do and adapt to. I might do something like this in the future, but I can’t tell when. If this is important to you, you might want to consider using a package manager such as winget to install and update 7+ Taskbar Tweaker. I didn’t use it personally, but I believe it should work, and I know that it verifies the hash of the downloaded setup file.
First of all, my goal for releasing the source code was mainly education, to show how the tweaker works and achieves what it does, less so for using it directly or verifying the binaries. The source code was released many years after the tool appeared since people asked for it, and for me it was a compromise I settled on, releasing most of it but not everything.
Regarding the quality and documentation, that would be great, but you must understand that this is a hobby project, and it spans across more than 10 years, starting with times when I was less experienced. My focus is on users, not on source code readers (the code I didn’t even intend to release), and so I worked hard for things such as features, translations, the help file, etc.
Nevertheless, if you have any questions about the source code, I’ll happily answer them.
You’re right, and I give no guarantees. I just try to make a helpful tool for me and for others, it’s up to you whether to use it.
Yeah, that was a bad timing that it occurred just after a release of a new version. The downtime was caused by a server update that got me by surprise, and I had to do some work to fix it. The first errors (“database error”, “404”) were my attempts to get out a quick fix, but once I realized it’s not so simple, I blocked incoming connections to the server, causing error 1020.
On the bright side, perhaps you wouldn’t write your comment if not for the downtime 🙂
Thanks, you too!
Regarding the “casual discussion” aspect of User Echo, GitHub has a feature called “Discussions” which is more like this comment section for general discussion. This could be used in conjunction with the issues tab to maintain a clean and discoverable way of managing issues and feature requests. Also, GitHub keeps track on download count of any release, which can be easily accessed using their API. Furthermore, I agree to Bernd that releasing the full source code would be beneficial for many of your users, as it would increase trust (a program which injects itself into a vital process of any Windows system should be as transparent, trustworthy and verifyable as possible, thus open-source should be a given) and would open up other skilled developers to collaborate on features, thus increasing the quality of this application even more. This would also ensure that, if the project were to be discontinued sometime in the future or this website were to go offline permanently, the project could be picked up by others and kept to be maintained.
In conclusion, I think completely moving this project to GitHub is a crucial step for keeping this project healthy and alive.
Thank you for your feedback Jonas, I’ll take it into consideration if I ever decide on making some changes.
Hello, your reply isn’t showing up for me so I am typing this in a separate comment. Here is a picture of the about screen: https://imgur.com/QWM9yky
I am using Windows 10 Education OS Build 19041.928 on dual 4k monitors at 125% scaling.
My accent color is #404040, and I am using dark mode windows with light mode apps (changing any of these does not fix it)
Interesting, the tweaker is just using the standard way of creating a dialog, using functionality that is provided by Windows. Apps such as Visual Studio use this functionality too. I suspect that it has something to do with your system, be it bad configuration or an actual Windows bug, and that other programs are affected too. Unfortunately, I didn’t find such a dialog in built in Windows tools to be able to verify this easily.
Hello
I have upgraded to 5.10.1 yesterday (from 5.10). The software is not working – failed to inject library (1003) – but 5.10 was working fine and no other changes happened to the system.
This is a heavily locked corporate laptop using Cylance among other stuff. Assuming that 5.10.1 did not change architecture, then maybe 5.10 was ‘known’ to the thread engine and thus allowed to run whereas 5.10.1 is unknown and thus blocked.
Is it possible to download v5.10 so that I can regain my sanity until 5.10.1 trickles through the thread list (PS. I have no access to whitelist anything – 5.10 was just install and run with no other tweaking).
Hi Antonis,
You can get old versions of the tweaker here.
(7+ Taskbar Tweaker: Could not load library (1004))
my win 10 version is insider build 21376.co_release.210503-1432, i was run 7tt v5.10.06 without problem. but 5.10.1beta and 5.10 both not work to my win 10.
where can i download older version (v5.10.06beta)?
Here you go.
thx!!
dont know why now my win 10 (insider) can’t open beta installer, i tried all beta version, all once clicked on the exe, then can’t go next step, and then window explorer freezed… i need to restart windows explorer. but if i use 7zip to extract the exe file to folder, then i have no problem to run the 7tt.exe program.
Seems like you have a problem running the installer. My only guess is that your antivirus causes some troubles. You can try adding the setup program to the exclusions list.
RaMMicHaeL is there a program to save many taskbar tabs, with all of the right files open in the right programs. A sort of “tab restore” that works akin to the way internet browsers restore their tabs. Which one can use as a way of getting back to exactly the same point of work.
It would be great if that was possible. Unfortunately, it requires cooperation from the running programs. Some programs, like Chrome, are able to restore their windows, but if the target program doesn’t implement window restoring, the windows can’t be magically restored.
Hi! Huge fan (and supporter) of your app!
I am trying to do something, but don’t know how to do it.
I just now had a dozen “File Explorer” windows open which combined show up as one on the task bar. I have Decombine on mouse hover active.
I wanted to close them all all once, and I was hoping I could press ALT or CTRL or something while doing mouseover to avoid they combine. Is this not a “thing”, or could it become a feature? Or is there another way I can interact with a combined group for one-click closing that maybe I just don’t know about?
Thanks always!
Hi!
No, currently that’s not implemented, but it’s a good idea. I’ll consider adding something like this in a future update.
There are two ways I can think of:
1. Use Taskbar Inspector. You can double click on the Explorer group, then right click and choose to close all windows. It can also help if you want to close only some of the windows in the group, or close multiple groups at once, by selecting the items that you want with shift or ctrl keys.
2. You can configure a keyboard shortcut to close all group items via advanced options. For example, you can set ctrl+shift+middle click to close the all group items.
Your program is extremely flawed when it comes to installation and updates.
Your website says “portable installation available”, but the download link just says 7tt_setup.exe (v5.10.1) and doesn’t say if that is the portable version or not. So it’s possible that it is the full installation exe and the portable installation download link isn’t on the https://rammichael.com/7-taskbar-tweaker page. I went ahead and assumed that 7tt_setup.exe is the portable installation, but I have no way of knowing.
So my preferred install location is “C:\Programs\7+ Taskbar Tweaker”.
While my v.5.10 is running from the “C:\Programs\7+ Taskbar Tweaker” location, the program prompts me to update, and I click yes update. It then acts like it updates. It will even show v5.10.1 if I click the About button. But if I close the program and then go back to “C:\Programs\7+ Taskbar Tweaker” and restart the program, it will show version v5.10 (not v.5.10.1) and will eventually prompt me to update it to v.5.10.1 again. It’s like the program doesn’t update to the same directory that the program was originally running from. It is instead updated to some other location that I can’t find. And when the program prompts me to update and I click yes, it never asks where I want to update the program to.
So I tried downloading the 7tt_setup.exe and using that .exe to update instead of updating directly from the program. Once again, it did not prompt me and ask what location I wanted to update to. It just automatically updated to whatever location that it wanted. When I click “Run 7+ Taskbar Tweaker” and then click the About button, it will show v.5.10.1. But if I close the program and go to “C:\Programs\7+ Taskbar Tweaker” and start the program again, it will show v.5.10 (not v.5.10.1) and will eventually prompt me to update to v.5.10.1 again.
And if I go to “C:\Programs\7+ Taskbar Tweaker” and look at Date Modified, it will show November 01, 2020. So it clearly isn’t updating to my preferred location. It is installing the update somewhere else.
So I can only conclude that updating from inside the running program itself AND updating using the 7tt_setup.exe both update the program to a different location, but not the location that I want. I would go to that location and copy the folder contents to my desired location. But I don’t even know where it is being downloaded to. I’ve checked Program Files, Program Files (x86), ProgramData, Local, LocalLow, Roaming, and Documents. And I can’t find the v.5.10.1 in any of those locations.
The update (and installation) process is so infuriating. I love the program for what it does. But I don’t see how anyone can defend how flawed this update and installation process is. 1.) If you update from the program itself, it should update to the exact location the program is being run from. 2 .) If you update the program or install the program, it should prompt you WHERE you want to install the update or program. 3.) On https://rammichael.com/7-taskbar-tweaker, instead of saying that a “portable installation is available” it should actually list next to the download link whether it is full installation or portable installation.
According to your F.A.Q., when installing the program it will prompt you on whether you want to install as Standard or Portable. But that doesn’t happen for me. When I click “Reinstall” (not Uninstall, because I don’t want to lose my settings), it doesn’t ask if I want Standard or Portable. It just automatically installs, without asking me where I want to install, and it doesn’t tell me where it installed. Stupid. Stupid. Dumb. Stupid.
Hi John,
Sorry for the inconvenience, I’m sure that the setup can be made a bit more intuitive than it is now.
There’s only one setup file, 7tt_setup.exe. You can choose whether to install the regular or the portable version, as also mentioned in the FAQ on this page.
Only one non-portable installation of the tweaker is supported. You can choose to uninstall and look at the displayed installation path: screenshot.
Any update should be happening to that folder.
That’s because you already have the tweaker installed. From the FAQ above:
Note: If the tweaker is already installed on your computer, the option won’t be visible. You can launch the setup with the /portable command line switch to force a portable installation.
Update:
I tried to uninstall it and it showed me where it was installed. So I can finally copy the folder contents to my preferred location.
But all my complaints are still valid and I hope they will receive the consideration and understanding that they deserve.
version 5.10.1 is not compatible with the may 2021 update of windows 10
I’ve just released v5.11 which adds compatibility to the Windows 10 May 2021 Update.
5.11 is blocked as a security risk by norton security. I’ll inform symantec of the false positive, but it will take them a while to work it out
I see that “anna” says 5.10.1 is not compatible with Win10 21H1. However I am now running that Win10 version, and as long as I accept the warning message it seems to work for the minimal settings I use. I wonder what she finds that doesn’t so I can avoid that setting for now?
right, it shows that warning message and then says it wasn’t able to load the libraries
After updating Windows a few days ago,
7+ Taskbar Tweaker does not work.T_T)
My guess would be that you’re using Windows 10 version 1909, and you installed update KB5001396 which caused the incompatibility. Please try the latest beta version which was just released, v5.11.0.1.
Thank you. Now it has become a program that must be present on a computer. Thanks brother!
After running the program
It does not work in auto-hide taskbar mode. What is the reason?
(When I run the program, the auto-hide taskbar mode is canceled by itself. And it works fine)
(I, win10)
I can’t reproduce the problem:
https://imgur.com/a/89mPSaY
Do you have a way to reproduce it?
Can you try to disable all tweaker options and check whether the issue persists? If not, try to figure out which option causes the issue.
v5.11.0.1 also same two issues on Dev build 21382.1
When I try to install Beta v5.11.0.1 (May 21, 2021) the explorer window in which I double clicked the .exe stops responding, without the classic Windows dialog where it says ‘Not responding’ though. Just can’t click anything in that window anymore. Other explorer windows and everything else is still working.
OS Build: 21382.1000
Windows 10 Feature Experience Pack 321.12100.0.3
Build 21382 is an insider preview build, and so some options might not work. I’ll adapt the tweaker to the latest insider build in the near future once I have some spare time.
Doesn’t work even when set to launch at startup, order of sub-windows of a Firefox isn’t remembered!!! Windows 10.
Please see my answer here. If you meant something else, please clarify what doesn’t work for you.
Hi,
See my comment here: https://rammichael.com/7-taskbar-tweaker/comment-page-49#comment-12897
v5.11 is declared as ransomware on VirusTotal: https://www.virustotal.com/gui/file/e1aaa1d0889d6ec9f29a7e8faf459543fce374742afb8c95d4dfb93fdb30724c/detection
Not the best feeling.
Hi Henrik,
I don’t see the word “ransomware” on the linked page. I do see other detections, and they are all false positives. While I can relate to the your feeling of being scared of installing a malicious software, I also get “not the best feeling” when my software, which is not malicious in any way, and has never been for more than a decade, is marked again and again by mistake by antivirus software.
Unfortunately, false positive detections are quite common for new versions, and usually after several days the detections are removed, once the file becomes more popular. There’s not much I can do about it.
This problem is mentioned in the FAQ, and was discussed many times in the blog comments, for example:
https://rammichael.com/7-taskbar-tweaker/comment-page-43#comment-11035
https://rammichael.com/contact/comment-page-4#comment-10292
See also Nir Sofer’s blog post, Antivirus companies cause a big headache to small developers, a good write-up about the problem.
Thank you for understanding, and sorry for the inconvenience.
I’ve just had to re-install Windows 10 for Workstations, and I have now put 7+ Taskbar Tweaker back on the computer. Perhaps it’s me, but the icons seem no larger than they were before I installed the program. What have I missed?
Thanks.
Did you turn on the relevant option? See the answer here.
The version 5.11 installer is being blocked by Carbon Black, which thinks it contains XPACK. I assume this is another false positive. Please check!
Thanks for letting me know. I didn’t find a false positive report form, perhaps since Carbon Black is an enterprise product and only clients can contact support. Please contact Carbon Black and ask them to remove the false positive detection, thanks.
Yes, it’s an enterprise AV product. I’m afraid I don’t have access to make such a request directly if there is no public false positive form for it. I can ask IS but I am not very hopeful they’ll cooperate.
Either way, thanks for creating this excellent tool!
The 0% volume behavior change in the previous version (v5.10.1) made it so that not only it auto-mutes and unmutes when you scroll down to 0% and back, but also auto-unmutes any time you scroll after manually muting. I don’t know if the latter part of this change is intentional but after re-reading the changelog, honestly it looks like it might be, so I’m not sure.
But this breaks my workflow… just kidding. Seriously though, I use 7TT in conjunction with an AHK script to quickly navigate between multiple audio sources, and I made A LOT of use of the ability to change volume while they’re muted. Which was not possible with default audio controls. So it not being consistent with Windows’ behavior was really useful actually (since clicking to a specific level or using keyboard media controls also auto-unmutes). I was able to alter the volume without having to unmute the sources, and not having to manually mute it again every single time.
So if that part (scrolling auto-unmuting no matter what) is intentional, I would really appreciate it if you could add a toggle to the advanced options for pre-v5.10.1 scrolling behavior.
It’s intentional, I changed it to make the tweaker consistent with Windows.
I’ve just released v5.11.1.1 beta with a relevant advanced option, please try it.
Works great, thanks a lot.
No, your 7+ Taskbar Tweaker is still flawed. Today, I had to update Windows 10 to (KB5003214). My 7+ Taskbar Tweaker is installed at “C:\Programs\7+ Taskbar Tweaker”. 7+ Taskbar Tweaker prompted me to update from the program itself. I clicked the Update button. I received a popup window saying that “A different version of the tweaker is currently running.” So I cliked the OK button. Once again, I clicked the Update button from the 7+ Taskbar Tweaker program itself. The second time that I clicked the Update button, it “updated” but not the right way. The program restarted. It showed that it was the new 5.11 version instead of 5.10.1. But, it updated to the WRONG LOCATION. So then I had TWO INSTALLATIONS of the same program. The old version at my desired location. The new version somewhere else. What I’m trying to tell you is that it causes MORE PROBLEMS than it is worth by updating from the program itself. If I want to update with LESS PROBLEMS, I probably have to quit the program, go to your website, download the installation .exe. And then MAYBE it will update to the right location, but I don’t know because I haven’t tested it yet and I can’t test it now since I already tried to update 7+ Taskbar Tweaker after a Windows 10 update. But I will tell you this. I have two laptops. I updated both of them today to (KB5003214). I tried updating 7+ Taskbar Tweaker on both laptops and both times the same exact thing occurred – 1.) I received a “A different version of the tweaker is currently running.”, 2.) I had to click the Update button a second time., 3.) The second time I clicked the Update button from the program, it installed the update at a DIFFERENT LOCATION.
It sounds like you installed the tweaker more than once, each time in a different location, or copied the files manually.
There’s only one path which is “the installation path” of the tweaker. As I mentioned previously, you can run the uninstaller and see it. Go on and check whether you see the path that you expect to see.
If not (I assume that’s the case), you can fix is by uninstalling the tweaker (settings will be kept) and installing it again in a folder of your choice. Alternatively, you can change the path in the registry, but this method is prone to mistakes and I don’t recommend it.
“It sounds like you installed the tweaker more than once, each time in a different location.”
Wrong
“Or copied the files manually.”
WTF are you even talking about?
I only had 7+ Taskbar Tweaker installed once on each laptop. I already told you where I installed it. It was not installed any other location on any drive on either laptop.
But when I click the Update button from the program the first time, it then lies to me and tells me it has another installation, which it does not.
WHen I click the Update button the second time, it will then install to Roaming on one laptop and Local > Program on another laptop. But before updating, it wasn’t installed in those places.
How hard is it to get you to understand that it’s YOUR PROGRAM’S FAULT because it won’t install in the directory that the program is already running from.
Goddamn it. I already know that I can find out where it is installed by running the uninstaller. The problem is your stupid program is creating ADDITIONAL installations instead of WHERE I WANT THEM.
I understand. Sorry for the inconvenience. I would very much like to fix this problem, but unfortunately, I never experienced and I’m not sure how to reproduce it. If you can provide me with exact steps that demonstrate the problem, I’ll check thoroughly what’s going on.
Here’s what I tried to reproduce the problem:
https://imgur.com/a/C9NhbY9
It’s like you are purposely being dumb and playing games. Did I at any time discuss using the installer .exe? And yet you send me a GIF of you using the installer .exe. (shakes my head) And I gave you the EXACT STEPS to reproduce the issue, but yeah play dumb and pretend that you I didn’t. Whatever. I appreciate the program a lot. I really do. But I also don’t like dealing with people’s BS. 1.) I already wrote the exact steps not once but two times in my first post and kinda re-discussed it in my second post. 2.) I made it painfully clear that I used the program to update and not the installer, but yeah of course you are just going to IGNORE THAT. Sure, I could make a GIF or video the next time this happens, and I’m sure you’ll find a way to not understand what is in the video, wasting my time. But yeah, next time there is a Windows update, I’ll be sure to make a video and then you can make some excuse of not being able to figure out what is wrong.
I’m sorry, I might have missed it amidst the large amount of text that you sent. If you’re able to copy here only the steps to reproduce the problem, I’ll do my best to reproduce it, and if there’s a problem, to fix it.
I’m not sure what you mean here. I installed the tweaker, since it has to be installed to have something to update. Then I used the program to update, trying to reproduce the problem.
Hi
I’m looking for a program for Windows 7 that brings back
the taskbar not-always-on-top feature that was in
Vista and earlier Windows versions.
I compiled the TT source code in and started trying to
remove everything not related to topmost, but it’s turning
out to be more complicated than I hoped.
It would be cool if you made a minimal open-source
version of TT that doesn’t have a GUI or touch the registry
or check for updates or need an installer and just sets
disable_topmost=2.
Thank you
Hi,
Why not use a portable version of 7+ Taskbar Tweaker?
Mostly true.
Mostly true.
You can hide the tray icon and launch it with a hidden window with the
-hidewndcommand line switch.The portable version doesn’t.
Can be disabled.
Not needed once you extract the portable version.
OK, thank you.
Congratulations, RaMMicHael on the anniversary and thank you for providing and supporting it.
–Greg
Hello.
I am a Japanese who regularly uses “7+ Taskbar Tweaker”.
Since I am using Google Translate, it is a poor English sentence, but please forgive me.
This is the main subject. After applying “Windows 10 May 2021 Update”, the notification area may shift to the right and partially disappear, or the notification area may disappear altogether.
I have set “Always display all icons in the notification area”, but if you move the icons in the notification area by dragging and dropping, or if the icons in the notification area increase or decrease, a problem will occur.
You can restore it by expanding the area of the taskbar, but if you do not hover the mouse over the notification area, the display will remain distorted.
I tried v5.11, v5.11.1, v5.11.0.1 (beta version), v5.11.1.1 (beta version), but all of them had problems.
The specifications of my Windows are as follows.
Edition Windows 10 Pro (Japanese version)
Version 21H1
OS build 19043.1023
Can you confirm?
Hi Tetsuya,
Please try the newly released beta version, 5.11.1.2. It might fix the issue. If not, please let me know.
Hi, RaMMicHaeL,
Thank you for your reply.
I tried v5.11.1.2 as you told me, but unfortunately it didn’t solve the problem.
I have uploaded a screenshot to Imgur because my poor explanation may not have been able to convey the content well.
I sent it by email with the URL. please confirm.
Best Regards,
Tetsuya
I got the screenshot gif, but I wasn’t able to reproduce the problem on my computer. Does it happen only when 7+ Taskbar Tweaker is running? Does it happen when all of the tweaker’s options are disabled, or does a specific option cause the problem? Do you have any other programs that might conflict with the tweaker?
Hello, RaMMicHaeL,
I’m sorry!
After checking various things, it seems that it is not caused by “7+ Taskbar Tweaker”.
It seems that the cause is an application called “AquaSnap Professional”, so I asked this author to investigate. I suspected “7+ Taskbar Tweaker” because this is not an application that customizes the taskbar or notification area.
I apologize to you for a fuss over.
Thank you.
Interestingly, I have been having the same issue with v5.11.1.2 since I installed the same May update on 21H1 (I don’t use AquaSnap software).
Other than exiting 7+ Taskbar Tweaker, selecting show News and interests icon (or icon and text) is a workaround that seems to fix the issue.
If you think that’s related to the tweaker, and you have a way to reproduce the problem, please let me know. Note that the fact that exiting the tweaker fixes issue doesn’t necessarily mean that the tweaker causes it.
Hmm? Strange···
After that, I found that the problem occurred under the following conditions.
(1) The new function “News and Interests” added in Windows 10 21 H1 is set to “Turn off”.
(2) “Aqua Snap Professional” has started and is enabled.
* Regarding this matter, we are still requesting confirmation from the author of “Aqua Snap Professional”.
After all, the startup status of “7+ Taskbar Tweaker” didn’t seem to matter.
At first, I thought “Display seconds on the tray clock” was causing it; but, apparently found out this wasn’t the culprit. I am still trying to identify the 7+ Taskbar Tweaker option/feature which is related to the issue.
Like Tetsuya noted, enabling News and interests icon is the only workaround for now.
This seems to be an issue with KB5003214 –
https://www.techradar.com/news/windows-10-update-is-messing-with-the-taskbar-but-theres-an-easy-fix
https://www.windowslatest.com/2021/05/31/kb5003214-update-is-causing-issues-with-windows-10-taskbar/
I also use Display Fusion and the issue is reported on their forum as well.
https://www.displayfusion.com/Discussions/View/missing-system-tray-icons/?ID=18d3bea7-8cea-4b5e-ae6f-1ed3b5cbf847
which one of these 7 taskbar tweaker version works on 20h2?
The latest version, v5.11.1, mostly works, but there’s a small compatibility problem with a small set of specific options. If you encounter issues, try the latest beta version, v5.11.1.2.
so does w10 large icon still works on v.5.11 version
It should work, yes.
Thanks for this program.
May I request that there was an option to show the date when using small taskbar icons? By default windows shows the time but hides date.
Hi Eduard,
Please see my reply here:
https://tweaker.userecho.com/topics/32-custom-date-format
I’m on 20H2. I just installed KB5003637 and .Net Core 3.1.16 security update (probably unrelated) and now I can’t rclick for jumplist, something I use all the time. I installed the latest beta, rebooted, and no difference.
Is jumplist broken for anyone else?
Does it happen only when 7+ Taskbar Tweaker is running? Does it happen when all of the tweaker’s options are disabled, or does a specific option cause the problem?
Also, what do you mean by “I can’t rclick for jumplist”? Does explorer crash, or the jump list just doesn’t show up?
Simply nothing happens upon click. With all default options/no tweaks, same thing. :/ Other tweaks like dragging thumbnails and doubleclick on empty space still work.
This Windows update reset some of my other customizations (it purged MIDIMapper and VirtualMidiSynth from the system dir and enabled the annoying new news/weather toolbar) so I’m wondering if it reset some other Windows setting I’m forgetting that could be blocking this functionality. I also use StartIsBack, fully updated, if that could be relevant.
Could it have to do with my staying on 20H2?
Ack, no jumplist even when 7+TT isn’t running. I’ll have to look into this more tomorrow.
StartIsBack’s jumplist tweak just needs to be updated. Disabling it fixed everything. 🙂 Sorry!
Yes, definitely a problem with the latest Windows update. Minimising and maximising any software from explorer just crashes explorer everytime. I’ve been using this great software for years, so hope you can get it sorted. 🙂
Did you try the latest beta version, 5.11.1.2?
Just trying it now. Seems ok at the moment, thank you.
Hey, Michael!
The new update from Windows (KB5003637) leads to chrashges of explorer.exe on interacting with any window on the taskbar.
After closing the Tweaker, the problem disappeared.
I don’t know if you are still working on 7tt, but I thought you should at least know.
Hi Maria,
Can you please try the latest beta version, 5.11.1.2?
Hi! Sorry, i didn’t find the other comments at first!
Everything is fine now and thank you so much for the fast response!
once again, nortin won’t allow installing the latest version because it thinks it’s a security thread. Here we go reporting the false positive once again.
Six minute YouTube video that shows how 7+TT always creates extra installations (and not where you want them) of the program when you try to update it (from the program, not the installer). If you are still TOO STUPID to understand, I will try again the next update and maybe even the one after that. I’ll try to be patient with slow people. But try not to be lazy and actually watch the video from beginning to end, and absorb EVERYTHING instead of just glancing at, ignoring, and dismissing almost everything and then acting clueless later.
https://youtu.be/Hc14NUTl69I
Thank you for taking the time to make the video.
Here’s what happens:
7+ Taskbar Tweaker has two different installation modes: a standard mode, and a portable mode.
In the portable mode, all settings are contained in the program folder (so that you can move it on a USB stick, for example). In this mode, the updater is indeed called such that it updates the currently running tweaker instance. From the video, I can deduce that you’re not using this mode.
In the standard mode, which is the default, the installer assumes that the tweaker was installed by standard means with the standard installer, and that no files were manually copied or moved. At installation time, the installer creates a registry value which contains the tweaker’s installation path, which becomes the single source of truth for further runs of the installer for updating or uninstalling.
Here’s a simple diagram: https://i.imgur.com/zHqtc8L.png
My guess would be that in your case, you have the tweaker in standard installation mode, but the registry entry doesn’t exist for some reason. For example, perhaps you installed the tweaker in one folder, then manually copied or moved the files to your custom folder.
To fix your setup, you can do the following:
Uninstall the tweaker from the standard folder (%localappdata%\Programs\7+ Taskbar Tweaker).
Download the installer from the website, and install the tweaker, choosing your preferred folder (C:\Programs\7+ Taskbar Tweaker).
After that, everything should work, since your preferred path will be saved in the registry for further updates.
Alternatively, you can uninstall the tweaker from the standard folder and just use the portable installation mode.
I hope that it helps. Please let me know if you have more questions or issues.
Thanks. I will give it a try before the next update. I will try to completely uninstall everything, delete everything, and delete registry keys. Then I will try reinstalling the portable version to C > Programs and hopefully it will work in the future.
I just wanted to say that the update process works now that I have reinstalled 7+TT correctly using the portable installation. Thank you for helping me. But I really hope that you will pay attention to the complaints that I had about the installer. The choice between Standard and Portable is almost hidden. I didn’t notice it even when looking for it. And even if you select Portable, if you request a desktop shortcut icon, it will automatically switch to Standard without you realizing it. Stuff like that.
It also couldn’t hurt to reword your download section at the top of your website.
Change this:
Download (portable installation available)
exe 7tt_setup.exe (1.75 MB, changelog)
Latest version: v5.11.3
To something like this:
Download
exe 7tt_setup.exe (1.75 MB, changelog)
Latest version: v5.11.3
Note: The installer will give you the option of Standard or Portable.
Why? When I saw “portable installation available”, I assumed it meant that there was a download exe for the Portable version. But I scrolled down the page and only saw the one 7tt_setup.exe. That was confusing. With my wording, the person will see that there is only one installer, but that same installer lets you install both versions – Standard and Portable.
Good to know that the update worked. Regarding the portable selection UI, I actually looked at it. I did a small improvement, which disables the components when a portable setup is selected to avoid the following:
I also tried to move the selection to the components below, something like this, but it’s quite challenging to customize the NSIS installer beyond the standard stuff, so I gave up on it for now.
Done, thanks for the feedback.
Hey the latest version of 7+ Taskbar Tweaker is being marked as malware – https://www.virustotal.com/gui/file/c7a5f922ca023949f2ef896893e5e669d8d04e7d7d4994eb86b2a9ed8d730752/detection
Hi Shri,
Those are false positive detections. False positives are unfortunately common for newly released versions of the tweaker. Please see the FAQ here and this blog post.
Thank you for the comment 🙂 I suspected as much. However the beta version doesn’t have these many. Thanks for making this tool!
Hello, after newest windows 10 feature update (19041.1052) there is problem with maximizing applications from taskbar, makes explorer restart.
Hi Abi,
Please make sure you’re using the latest version of the tweaker, 5.11.2.
Thanks for your help!
Hi! Great work, been using this tool for a long time!
A couple of suggestions:
– please provide a portable zip with just the binary files, for those of us who can’t disable the antivirus to run the installer;
– add a “settings export/import” option so that settings can be shared between different machines and throughout windows reinstallations.
Thank you!
I just realized that both of these suggestions could be solved by using the portable version; however, I maintain that they could still be useful 🙂
Hi, thanks for the suggestions.
The executables of the program itself can still be blocked by an antivirus, so I don’t think that it’s going to help.
Maybe one day. For now, settings can be exported manually from the registry. Alternatively, as you mentioned, a portable version can be used.
They can be, but they aren’t 😁 in my specific case, Carbon Black blocks the installer with the message “XPACK is known malware and was blocked”, but has no problem with 7TT itself. As it’s completely controlled by my company, I can’t circumvent this and ended up copying the binaries from my personal machine, and it all worked. However, the auto-update feature doesn’t work because of this.
Fair enough 🙂
sorry, I apparently missed the Reply button 🙁
Well, we don’t know whether it will be the case in the future, and I’m reluctant to create a new infrastructure just for this reason. Even if I release the zip, the tweaker doesn’t know how to use it for automatic updates, and that’s something I’m even more reluctant to add since the exe setup works nicely, and the problem is specific to a single misbehaving security software.
Hi
its possible to change the middle mouse click to open a specified program path, for example, c:\windows\processlist.exe?
thank you
Hi,
Yes, it’s possible, see my answer here:
https://tweaker.userecho.com/287-ability-to-run-application-or-even-better-trigger-a-media-button-on-clicking-on-empty-taskbar-space
thank you very sr!!!
a very helpful tool…
After applying newest updates 5.11.1 and 5.11.2 on W10 1909 (Build 18363.1621) because of the effect, rebuilding the taskbar on every action on the taskbar (this is solved), I got the problem, that I get the error message “Error occured while saving configuration” when I try to change any setting of TT. So changes took effect, but are not stored permanently, disapperaing after next reboot.
Some versions ago, this also happend, but disapeared in subsequent versions.
I don’t know if this may be caused by some restrictions on our company computers by our IT, so I need to know, if this might be the reason, to give an hint to them. I don’t want that TT might be kicked off from our available applications, only if this problem makes it unusable.
Are you using the standard or the portable version? If it’s the former, you might want to try the portable version. See the FAQ on the top of this page for details.
Thanks.
My IT administration collegue, who set up the MECM-Package for Installation, has changed the package, using the correct inject.dll for the installation.
Now it works fine.
With the newest windows 10 update (news and weather in the taskbar) it kept crashing everytime I clicked any icon with my left mouse button. First I thought it was windows being shitty but when I disabled this program, it stopped crashing. So I think you need to update some parts to work with the new taskbar. Happy to help debugging, I’m a dev myself. Contact at ffactory@outlook.de
This sounds like an incompatibility issue that was fixed in the latest version. Please make sure you’re using 7+ Taskbar Tweaker v5.11.2.
Hello,
Chrome is blocking the download of the last beta installer v5.11.2.1 and Windows Defender reports it contains malware Program:Win32/Uwamson.A!ml
Can be fixed?
Thanks!
Hi Pablo,
Thanks for letting me know. It’s a false positive detection. I reported about it to Microsoft, hopefully they’ll remove it in the next couple of days.
Microsoft got back to me and said that they removed the detection: https://i.imgur.com/4JyAA9H.png
Thanks, sadly I still get the same issue on both Chrome and Windows defender.
A new version, v5.11.3, was just released. Please check whether it is also detected. If it is, I’m afraid there’s not much I can do about it. You can try contacting Microsoft or Google yourself, or you can try adding the tweaker to the exclusions list.
Hello,
do you know any workaround to get ungrouping buttons in the taskbar working in Windows 11?
Thank you
Hi Daniel,
I haven’t looked at Windows 11 yet. As far as I know, what’s available online now is a leaked image which might be outdated, so I’ll wait for an official build from Microsoft.
I hope you will be able to support Windows 11 as well. Their mention of “removing the ability for programs to modify the taskbar” in their changelog gives me anxiety, as I’m so damn dependent on your application that it’s unreal.
Seriously, if it wouldn’t have been for your app, I would’ve abandoned Windows a long time ago.
Cheers from Romania,
– A huge fan of yours
For context:
https://mspoweruser.com/windows-users-protest-inability-to-move-windows-11-taskbar-begs-microsoft-to-reconsider/
I uninstalled 7+ Taskbar Tweaker and re-installed it today. I don’t know if the portable version will work or not. But I have some complaints about the installation process. 1.) My first complaint is that the option to select the portable install is very unnoticeable. I knew I had to select it. And yet, I clicked the ‘Next’ button and it prompted me on a location. And I was scratching my head on why it didn’t ask me if I wanted to install the portable version or not. So I cancelled and tried again. After studying the window for some time, I saw that the “Standard” text at the top wasn’t just text. That it was a drop down menu where you could select “Portable”. I wish that it was more clear than that. It would be better to have checkboxes for Standard and Portable and selecting one deselected another. Or another screen where you only have two choices, Standard or Portable. Then once you confirm which, then it will ask you the other stuff like Start Menu Shortcuts, Desktop Shortcuts, and location. 2.) Even after I caught my mistake and selected “Portable”, it still installed the Standard version? Why? Well, I didn’t notice it till later, but if you check the checkbox for Desktop Shortcuts, it will change it from “Standard” To “Portable”. And once again, I didn’t notice it, because that section is very unnoticeable and just looks like filler text. I wanted to create a new shortcut without going to the program location and right clicking and selecting “Send to Desktop (Create Shortcut)”. And once I checked the “Desktop Shortcuts” box, I clicked the “Next” button and installed the program without realizing that it switched from Standard to Portable. Your program should be better designed than this. It’s a garbage installation setup wizard.
Also, I won’t know if the Portable version will work with updates or not. I won’t find out till the next update. I’m just reinstalling it because my computer thinks that I have the desktop version.
Oh, and one more thing. It couldn’t hurt to add something to the 7+ Taskbar Tweaker window where it says “(Desktop Version)” or “(Portable Version)” so people can verify what version that have. And this isn’t related, but I always felt that it was stupid that your Settings in context menu took you to startup settings and your actually 7+TT settings were in 7+ Taskbar Tweaker. Who the hell names their Settings section the name of the program? The Settings in the context menu should take you to your 7+ Taskbar Tweaker settings.
Thank you for the feedback. I agree with your notes, and I wanted to rethink the portable version selection UI, but haven’t found the time to do that.
will there be a function to center all icons in the taskbar?
There’s a topic about it on UserEcho. Maybe one day.
Hi! I’m nearly dependent on this app. My main reason for using this is the ‘larger icons’ feature, because Windows 10 stupidly doesn’t allow you to have a proper icon size in the task bar. (It boggles the mind!)
However, I always have to google how to enable it, because it is so hidden away!
Will you consider moving it into the main window in the future? It seems such an obvious function, and I’ve never encountered a bug of any kind when applying it.
Thank you for the great programme!
Hi David, thanks for the feedback.
The large icons option is probably the most popular one among the advanced options. Indeed, I thought about moving it to the main UI, but haven’t had the chance to do it yet. Initially it was added as an advanced option since it was slightly buggy and only for Windows 10. Nowadays, it’s much less buggy, and Windows versions older than Windows 10 are much less relevant, so it makes sense to move it to the main UI.
Is it possible to run the portable version without uninstalling the standard one. I had a mcafee installed and I cannot disable it, so I cannot update 7+ Taskbar Tweaker. I don’t want to uninstall the old version, before beeing sure, a portable version on my usb drive works. When trying to start from usb, an error occurs: “Process creation failed”
Yes.
This means that the tweaker cannot be launched. Perhaps McAfee blocks the tweaker on the USB drive as well. If possible, try to add the tweaker’s folder to the exclusions list of McAfee and see whether it helps.
This didn’t help, McAfee points to following url: https://www.virustotal.com/gui/file/a3d6314117e601cb1194673a8b4d2b069b8d79e40402b9f2aa4a9ddd330d9485/detection
It is not mcafee, but other who rated the exe to be malicious.
It is pity, as 7+ Taskbar Tweaker started crashing last week and I wanted to try the new version. What I’m missing a lot is the possibility to disable grouping in the taskbar. I’ve searched for other way of doing this, but as it seems, microsoft is not adding this feature to the taskbar.
Hi. I’m running 7TT 5.11.2.1 but I’m still having a crashing problem with the taskbar when the new News and interests is turned off. (That’s actually the explorer process crashing, isn’t it?) I haven’t quite worked out the specific circumstances of what triggers the crash but an icon in a window changing seems to be one of them. If N&I is on it runs fine for days. When it’s off, it usually doesn’t take long for the taskbar to disappear and restart. There are two things that might make my setup an edge case. One, this is a 32 bit Windows (20H2). Two, I also run Classic Shell’s Classic Start Menu. If I can be of further help please let me know.
Hi Chris,
I’d start by figuring out what causes the issue. Try running without 7+ Taskbar Tweaker and Classic Shell, and see whether that fixes the problem. If it does, try running with one of the tools at a time, and see which tool causes the problems.
Sorry, I wasn’t clear.
If the News and Interests is on and Taskbar Tweaker is started everything runs fine.
If News and Interests is off and Taskbar Tweaker is started the taskbar will soon crash.
News and Interests being off and Taskbar Tweaker not running also runs fine.
OK, thanks for the clarification. Still, I need a way to reproduce the problem to be able to be able to investigate it. Try to see whether turning off other customization programs such as Classic Shell fixes the problem. Also check whether turning off the tweaker’s options changes anything. If it does, try to figure out which option causes the problem.
I’ve used several devices with News and Interests turned off and with 7+ Taskbar Tweaker installed and running, and I experienced no problems so far.
OK. Sorry this took a while. This seems like an edge case and seems very odd to me, but here’s what I found.
The crash occurs when News and Interests is turned off, Classic Start Menu is running and the start menu button is set to ‘classic’ (which is slightly wider than its default setting) and Taskbar Tweaker has the Decombine Active Group option set to on. Uninstalling Classic Start Menu prevented the crash from happening. I’m not sure why Decombine Active Group is having an effect because I don’t think there’s anything that’s being combined in the first place. I have Grouping set to Don’t Group and Combining set to Don’t Combine grouped buttons.
There’s something else I noticed that may or may not be relevant. There’s been some odd behavior with an icon in the system tray (Feed Notifier if that makes a difference) that is set to off in the Windows taskbar settings but has been appearing in the system tray when started for something like 15 seconds before disappearing like it should. That’s been happening for a long time. When Decombine Active Group was disabled that appearance stopped and it just went straight to being hidden like it should. I don’t know what it means but since the two issues happen or don’t at the same time I thought I’d mention it.
Let me know if I can be of further help.
Strike everything I just said. Taskbar is crashing again. Sorry to have wasted your time. If I come up with anything more definitive I’ll let you know.
Hi developer,
I am very happy to use your program, however given the fact that I mostly use this while working, my company has McAfee Endpoint Security which see this as a threat and is marked as Trojan. Is this like a false positive threat or is there any way to make this work along McAfee?
Many thanks,
R
Hi,
It’s probably a false positive detection. False positive detections are unfortunately common for the tweaker, and there’s not much I can do about it. You can try contacting McAfee support and asking them to remove the false positive detection.
I just updated to Windows 11, but I totally miss your Taskbar Tweaker! I was wondering if you’re planning on creating an experimental build for it, or if you know any work-arounds. Thanks!
It’s too early to tell, this time it’s more challenging than with previous updates (Windows 7 to 8 to 10). For details, see the newly released blog post, 7+ Taskbar Tweaker and a first look at Windows 11. As for workarounds, currently there are none I’m aware of.
Thanks for the detailed analysis. Another reason not to upgrade to Windows 11, as if I needed any more. I believed them about 10 the last.
My old pappy used to say “If it ain’t broken, don’t fix it!” Microsoft says “Keep fixing it till it’s broken!” I guess the smartest thing to do is tough it out 4 more years till end of support for Windows 10, then throw
in the towel and buy a new machine that ships with Windows 11 (or higher by then, lol). But that’s what it’s all about, isn’t it?
My installation of 7+ Taskbar Tweaker v5.11.2 is set to check for updates and to update automatically.
For some reason, it is not updating and I am still stuck on v5.11.2 without getting any notification nor update to v5.11.3. Is there any suggestion to what may be happening to me?
If you configured the tweaker to update automatically, you won’t get update notifications, and the tweaker will update without any interaction a week after the release of the new version. The delay is to avoid silent updates in case the new version turns out to be buggy, giving time to push a quick fix.
If the update was release on July 4th, does that mean I should be receiving it on July 11th? In other words, if it is not updated after July 11th then something is wrong?
Also, is there any way to remove/change the mandatory 1 week delay on silent updates?
It depends on the time of the next update check on July 11th. Give it another 24 hours.
No, not currently.
Avast really seems to hate this useful app, I usually have to add multiple exceptions & redownload the file multiple times before I can get a new version working again but this time it just won’t go, even trying to uninstall & reinstall doesn’t work, it just crashes out.
It seems after the latest update of Windows 10 (KB5004945), I experience the same issue before, which was just recently fixed with v5.11.3: it does not work on other users and causes the NVIDIA Settings not to launch which causes the explorer to restart all the time.
Hi,
After the last update one of the key functions* that I use broke, so I was trying to get the last version 5.11.2 to no avail. Can you please help?
Thank you!
Best regards,
Marjan
emptyspace|lclick 1
Hi Marjan,
The latest version is 5.11.3, but it shouldn’t matter in this case. The option works on my computer with all recent updates. Please make sure that the taskbar is locked (right click -> “Lock the taskbar” is checked).
Oh my, I didn’t know that detail. It worked. I am using a different computer as usual … Thank you for your quick reply!
Switching windows desktops (Win+Tab, Ctrl+Win+Left/Right) reverts taskbar windows to default positions. Example: select “Don’t group” and arrange “Folder 2”, “Notepad”, “Folder 1” on Desktop 2. Switch to Desktop 1 and back: “Notepad”, “Folder 1”, “Folder 2”.
The virtual_desktop_order_fix advanced option of 7+ Taskbar Tweaker can help with this. See this blog post, and refer to the tweaker’s help file for more details.
Thanks, this worked when I set it to 1!
This is a godsend. My son was complaining about this the other day, not being able to drag individual explorer windows next to say a relative program like Photoshop or whatever, to detach it from its file explorer group. I was like “Yah, it’s always annoyed me but we have to learn to live with it”. Then it occured to me (just last week) that MAYBE someone out there coded something to resolve this.
I almost gave up after a 10 minute search, only falling on MS support answers or how to guides that talk about the built-in limited functions and then your site came up. At first I was “no way this will really resolve this”, but your screenshot seemed to strongly suggest it would, and lo and behold, this is what I’ve wanted for I don’t know how many years. My new workflow has completely change to the way it’s always meant to be, thank you so much for that! Plus we get some “little” extras alongside what I was originally hoping for.